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you're listening to irn

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2014 order zone international ufo

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he's been called the real fox mulder for

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21 years

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nick pope worked for the british

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government highly classified

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investigations into ufo sightings alien

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abductions crop circles and psychic

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phenomena

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none of the cases he worked on is as

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powerful and compelling as what is he is

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about to bring to us

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the story of an amazing ufo counter that

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happened in at the united states air

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force base in reynolds forest england

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in december of 1980

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please welcome one of the world's

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well thank you very much

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for that dennis and uh again my profound

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thanks to everyone who has worked so

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hard to put on this festival

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um to brad to noe uh to the mayor to the

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city

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um

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everyone else who has worked maybe

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behind the scenes on some of the

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organization here putting together the

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audio visual uh setting up the room etc

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i have very few slides

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for this so if if you if you want to put

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the house lights up um it's it's up to

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to you

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thank you too to

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the musicians

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i mean i i just want to say that i think

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it is a great thing

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that

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uh this this festival is more than just

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a bunch of talks interesting though i

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hope the talks are i'm really impressed

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that this is really a combination not

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just of the presentations but of a music

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festival a parade

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uh a costume party

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uh a sky watch a ghost hunt and i think

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it's really great that the city has

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gotten behind this and is uh putting

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money and effort into building something

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here and i i get the impression that

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we're in at the early years of something

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that's going to grow and grow and in

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years to come is is going to be a great

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uh thing down here

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now by the way i thank the musicians

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in my small homage

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to perhaps the southwest i am wearing my

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george strait shirt here today

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and before i left

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when my wife asked me where i was going

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i said i'll be somewhere down in texas

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okay i better not do jokes that's not

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so what i'd like to do

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is really tell the story of what i think

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is

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everyone will have their own personal

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favorites but i think it's arguably the

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world's second best known ufo incident

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after roswell

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um let's test that first of all who are

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who here has heard of the reynoldsham

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forest incident oh that's great okay

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good well

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now who here has recently seen

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more than one tv show mentioning

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rendlesham forest

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yeah this is what i'm noticing

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increasingly

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tv production companies and networks

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no disrespect to dennis and and other

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researchers but i think they're finding

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it more difficult to make new shows on

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roswell

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for the obvious reason that obviously

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many of the

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direct first-hand witnesses have now

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passed

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so

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and and in terms of what makes good tv

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networks tv networks and production

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companies tend to like a mixture of

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things you've probably seen they like

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cgi recreations

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they like documents they like

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experts but they do like

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the witnesses who are actually there who

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saw things who experience things and it

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is more difficult

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than it used to be

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for the reason that i stated to make

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shows

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about roswell and increasingly starting

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about three four five years ago

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and continuing

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there are more and more tv shows that

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are featuring the rendelsham forest

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incident really

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as

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shown down here in the states

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um

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alien encounters on

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science channel a whole bunch of other

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ones and by the way at least two more

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in the pipeline that i've been asked not

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to talk about simply because

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obviously

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networks

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don't like people kind of letting the

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cat out of the bag until they've had a

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chance to do their own publicity but

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rest assured if you like rental sham

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forest there's more to come

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and what i'm going to do

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um in this final presentation of the

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evening is basically give an overview of

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the rendersham forest incident and then

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perhaps

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when

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dennis gives me the 15-minute slot

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perhaps wherever i am in my presentation

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i'll wrap up and then take 15 minutes of

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questions and comments

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which can be about rendlesham

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but hey i'm not going to be strict about

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this if you

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wanted to ask something about my earlier

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presentation and didn't get a chance

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or if you just want to ask something

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more generally about my uh ministry of

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defense work on ufos in the uk

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happy to take that too so so when dennis

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catches my eye and says 15 minutes i'm

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i'm gonna wherever i am i'm gonna stop

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and turn it over to you for the last 15

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so let me tell you the story

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of the rendelsham forest incident and

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some of you will know it well

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but some of you

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maybe even who have seen it on tv you

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know how it is it's just a sound bite

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here or

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a little recreation there and i think

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the full story of what happened is

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incredibly

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complex

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and i'm gonna try and give you an

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overview of it

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now

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i should say one other thing

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i think

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that the rendelsham forest incident is

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almost

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what i would call a perfect storm

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of a ufo case

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almost every single factor

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that makes a ufo incident

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interesting

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compelling

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and

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something that

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that is supported not just by testimony

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but but by other things too everything

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that makes the case interesting and

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compelling almost comes together

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in this

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single incident

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and i think that's very important for a

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start it was not a single witness but it

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was a multiple witness event

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uh some people have had tried to count

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the total number of witnesses well

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even the people you know on the record

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whose name we know who were involved

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probably 20 or 30. those names that we

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don't know

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um i i wouldn't be surprised if it's

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more than a hundred

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most of those witnesses were military

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personnel now that you know there's no

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monopoly on the truth it doesn't mean

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that subjects it doesn't mean that uh

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sightings from the general public are

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any less trustworthy but i think when it

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comes to particularly when it comes to

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talking to the skeptics about this

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it's actually quite compelling when you

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can turn around and say well hey by the

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way if you think it's just crazy people

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who see ufos you can dip into the files

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at the ministry of defense of other

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nations that have investigated this you

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can find police officers pilots military

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personnel um

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you know who have who have seen these

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things sometimes up close and personal

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so i think it is another interesting

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part of the story that most of the

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witnesses and certainly the witnesses

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whose story i'm going to tell you now

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are military personnel that i think is

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important in of itself multiple

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witnesses military witnesses

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a multiple

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not just witness event in terms of how

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many people saw this but this wasn't one

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night this was three consecutive nights

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again

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just things that make a case

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compelling

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government documents backing up a lot of

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this and

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government documents the provenance of

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which is not disputed later on i'm gonna

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tell you about a couple of documents

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skeptics don't say hey i think these

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things might be forged uh they'd look

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pretty silly if they tried because you

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can read them on the government's

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website these documents are real and

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they back up a good part of the story

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physical trace evidence this ufo was

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briefly tracked on radar

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and

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when we come on to talk about the heart

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of the case

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you'll see that there's physical trace

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evidence in terms of things like

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indentations in the ground

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burn marks on the trees and high levels

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of radioactivity because this was not

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just lights in the sky this was a

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structured craft

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up close and personal and actually on

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the first night landed

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so this is why i say it's a perfect

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storm and you you could make a list of

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things that make a a ufo case perhaps

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important and you know you'd pick things

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maybe like uh government documents

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backing it up radar evidence military

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witnesses all of those things are

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present in this one case

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it takes place in england

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in december 1980

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as i mentioned over a series of three

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nights

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and at the heart of

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this story are two military bases bent

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waters and woodbridge

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now although these bases are in england

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they are actually united states air

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force bases uh

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starting in the second world war and

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continuing to this day though on a

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smaller scale there has been a huge

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united states military presence

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in the united kingdom part of that was

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involved in

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helping us brits win the second world

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war

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okay

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and of course when the second world war

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segued into the cold war

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the

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greater numbers of tanks uh westwards

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and uh arguably preventing a third world

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war through that military that american

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military presence in europe and you know

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by the way um

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i think

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in

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the world today there is an awful lot of

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what i would call knocking the united

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states uh believe me

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though the voices and the critics might

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be quite loud let me tell you that us

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brits for example are extremely grateful

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to the americans and the american

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military in particular for the second

289
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:06,959
world war for the cold war and hopefully

290
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:10,079
for preventing the third world war um so

291
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:13,200
thanks from a brit who now by the way is

292
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,040
an honored guest in your country i

293
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:17,600
married an american four years ago and

294
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:23,750
i've

295
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:26,720
lived here in america for uh

296
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,120
three years now we spend our time

297
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,440
between san jose where my wife is a

298
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:34,000
professor at the university and tucson

299
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:36,079
where we have a beautiful place out in

300
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,959
the desert so i am an honored guest in

301
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:40,399
your country

302
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,440
so

303
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:43,839
bent waters and woodbridge are these

304
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,680
twin united states air force bases in

305
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,639
county of suffolk england and i say twin

306
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,320
bases

307
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,720
they are extremely close together

308
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:57,120
geographically literally there are just

309
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:00,480
a few hundred yards between them and in

310
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:04,800
between them lies rendelsham forest

311
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,000
and for the

312
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:08,639
historians amongst you i mentioned the

313
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:10,720
second world war ben waters and

314
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:14,320
woodbridge were basically uh emergency

315
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:17,519
air aircraft um

316
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,560
uh

317
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,279
landing bases from the second world war

318
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:23,279
when um

319
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:26,560
planes had been on bombing missions over

320
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,160
nazi germany and other parts of um

321
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:33,040
nazi occupied europe

322
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,160
when bombers were damaged and were

323
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:38,639
limping back to the uk

324
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:41,600
they needed very long and wide runways

325
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:42,959
uh very

326
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,000
close to the east coast and bent waters

327
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,839
and woodbridge were built with that in

328
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:49,440
mind so that's the history of these

329
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,320
bases but they are i call them twin

330
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:54,880
bases and because they are so close

331
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:56,720
together

332
00:15:03,269 --> 00:14:59,760
for command and control purposes in the

333
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:03,279
us military the twin bases were treated

334
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:05,839
as a single entity so there is a there

335
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,279
was a single officer in overall command

336
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:11,760
and uh that of course made a a great

337
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:14,880
deal of sense so if you ever get

338
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:17,920
slightly confused by uh

339
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,240
people talking about bent waters

340
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:23,040
woodbridge rendelsham forest the twin

341
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,320
bases it's all basically this the same

342
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:28,480
place

343
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:32,320
and just to put this in some sort of uh

344
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:35,360
historical context for you

345
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:38,720
december 1980 was a time of some

346
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:46,710
arguably we were coming up to the

347
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:49,680
greatest period of danger of a third

348
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,440
world war since the cuban missile crisis

349
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:55,360
and a big

350
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:58,320
cause of this danger was

351
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:01,680
the soviet reaction to the rise

352
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:05,199
in power and popularity of the polish

353
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,000
trade union solidarity

354
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:10,240
and

355
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:12,560
there was still the very hard-line

356
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,199
soviet regime of the ailing president

357
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,040
leonard brezhnev

358
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:21,600
but ranged against him

359
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:24,880
was the newly elected hard-line prime

360
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:27,040
minister of the united kingdom margaret

361
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:30,560
thatcher who was taking a very tough

362
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,440
stance with the soviets and of course in

363
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,360
december 1980

364
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:37,680
though he had not just not yet been

365
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:40,160
inaugurated

366
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:42,720
president ronald reagan had won the

367
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:45,360
election and was making it very clear

368
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,639
that he too

369
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:48,880
was going to take a tough line with the

370
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:52,560
soviets and indeed that that combination

371
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,440
of

372
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,000
ronald reagan and margaret thatcher was

373
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,639
a a political double act the

374
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:00,720
consequences of which i think

375
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:03,279
are still being felt today in the way it

376
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,839
changed the world so this was the

377
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:07,360
backdrop

378
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:13,439
reynoldsham forest incident and to cut

379
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,839
straight to the chase

380
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:17,439
you're probably thinking gosh he's

381
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,120
spoken for about 15 minutes and he

382
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,520
hasn't even got to the bit about the ufo

383
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,760
yet well sorry about that but i always

384
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,839
think it is

385
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:27,600
interesting and important to

386
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:30,320
contextualize some of this and say well

387
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,080
let's not just tell the story in a

388
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,240
vacuum but let's

389
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:36,720
ask ourselves what was the backdrop

390
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,440
against which all this played out

391
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,240
so i hope that's been important and of

392
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:44,880
interest to you

393
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:48,640
so we get to the early hours

394
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:51,520
of december 26th

395
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:53,440
1980

396
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:54,720
and

397
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:59,760
personnel at the twin bases of bent

398
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,840
waters and wood bridge

399
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:03,840
on patrol

400
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:07,520
see strange coloured lights out in

401
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,400
rendelsham forest

402
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,640
and their first thought

403
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:15,280
is that maybe an aircraft has crashed

404
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:17,840
and is burning

405
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:20,080
not the military aircraft they knew that

406
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:23,039
there were no military aircraft from the

407
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,000
bases flying and the main aircraft that

408
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:28,559
they flew by the way was the a-10 tank

409
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:30,400
master

410
00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:33,679
which we by the way uh still see when

411
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:35,919
we're at our place in tucson they're

412
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:39,360
still based at davis-monthan and they're

413
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:40,559
still getting

414
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,760
extended year on year

415
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,440
but that's another story

416
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:46,960
so

417
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,200
they see these strange lights in the

418
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,280
forest

419
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:52,960
red

420
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,679
blue white

421
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:57,440
all sorts of colors

422
00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:00,320
and they think there is this um aircraft

423
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,919
crash so they seek and obtain permission

424
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,280
to go out

425
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:07,120
into the forest

426
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:09,840
and i won't bore you with a whole load

427
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:12,160
of jurisdictional

428
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:15,520
kind of information but

429
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:18,480
the situation regarding american bases

430
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:21,520
on british soil can be quite complex

431
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:24,240
legally and jurisdictionally but

432
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,000
obviously in a situation where you think

433
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:28,640
that lives might be in danger or that

434
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,520
there might be a security situation

435
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:33,039
you can

436
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:35,679
go out beyond the wire and so the

437
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,400
american personnel went off base out

438
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:41,760
into the forest to see what was going on

439
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:44,160
and if it was an aircraft crash and a

440
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:51,350
as they drove out there in

441
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:56,950
one of the military

442
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:59,679
police made a comment which

443
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,760
kind of disconcerted

444
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,840
a lot of the other people and they were

445
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,360
talking they were talking about this

446
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:07,840
crash and one of them said

447
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,080
it didn't crash

448
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:12,880
it landed

449
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,679
so with this in their minds as they went

450
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,600
out there it it

451
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,679
perhaps put things into a different

452
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:21,840
light now

453
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,840
the names of the people that went out

454
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:26,080
there the key players in a lot of this

455
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:27,440
are

456
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,400
particularly john burroughs and jim

457
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:32,640
peniston

458
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:34,640
john was an airman

459
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,600
uh

460
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,159
and jim basically was the security

461
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:40,320
supervisor that night uh he was a

462
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:41,360
sergeant

463
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:43,280
and um

464
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:45,200
they were the two people that got

465
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:47,679
closest to this ufo one of the things

466
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:49,440
that happened as they drove out there in

467
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,400
their jeep is that

468
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,000
uh firstly the

469
00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:56,320
the path they were following into the

470
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:57,919
forest got

471
00:21:01,590 --> 00:21:00,080
less and less

472
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,600
accessible

473
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,600
so at one point they had to basically

474
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,200
stop the jeep

475
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:07,840
because it was just um two the trees

476
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:10,559
were too close in to continue driving

477
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:14,080
and they had to continue on foot

478
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:15,840
the other thing that happened is the

479
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,480
radios started playing up and these were

480
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,880
usually pretty reliable line of sight

481
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:22,799
radios and yet there was a lot of

482
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:26,400
interference so they kept leaving people

483
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,760
behind to set up a communications relay

484
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:31,600
a radio relay

485
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:33,760
that they would only work for maybe a

486
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:39,270
which was highly unusual

487
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:41,600
these everyone who i've spoken to about

488
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,039
the radios said well hey the radios were

489
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,960
absolutely the lifeblood of what the

490
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,120
security and the law enforcement

491
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,440
personnel used and a whole bunch of

492
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:53,280
other people too of course i don't have

493
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:55,360
to tell those of you with police and

494
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,200
military backgrounds how central

495
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:00,320
communications is to operational

496
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:02,480
effectiveness and having a reliable

497
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,280
radio is is one of the most important

498
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,520
things uh that you can have in that kind

499
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:09,760
of situation these were reliable pieces

500
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:12,960
of kit and yet it seemed that something

501
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:15,120
was interfering with them i'll come back

502
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:16,080
to the

503
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:24,470
john burroughs and jim peniston

504
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:27,039
went furthest forward

505
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:29,039
like i say other people had been left

506
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:30,799
back some with the jeep

507
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,280
some between the jeep and where jim and

508
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:36,000
john were pressing right on

509
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,000
deep into the forest and they knew that

510
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:40,559
they were getting incredibly close to

511
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:43,919
this ufo uh to pardon me to this this

512
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:46,960
thing whatever it was i i say ufo no one

513
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,070
john and jim were treating it as a

514
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:56,480
security situation a possible plane

515
00:23:04,390 --> 00:22:59,520
crash but whatever it was

516
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:08,950
biggest and most strategically important

517
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:14,470
military bases in the entire nato

518
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:17,360
command structure

519
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:20,159
self-evidently anything weird going on

520
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:21,360
close

521
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:23,919
to ben waters and woodbridge would of

522
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:28,799
itself be of huge security concern

523
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:29,760
and

524
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:34,000
pressed forward

525
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,799
and

526
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,880
there came a point where the trees began

527
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:39,440
to thin out and they came to a

528
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:42,960
small clearing in the forest

529
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:46,799
uh john burroughs often says that the

530
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,360
the word clearing is slightly misleading

531
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:52,799
he says you know this thing really was a

532
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:56,000
little more than a a small gap

533
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,360
in the trees maybe uh no more than

534
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:02,159
than you know 12 15

535
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,120
yards across something like that not not

536
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:07,520
like a huge space like like this

537
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,039
auditorium

538
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:11,679
much smaller

539
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:14,720
what they found there was not a crashed

540
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:16,960
aircraft

541
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:20,000
but well let me show you jim's sketch of

542
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,909
that's jim peniston's sketch

543
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:27,440
of the ufo

544
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:29,520
taken from his

545
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:31,919
police notebook his original police

546
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:35,120
notebook which he still has

547
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,080
and

548
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:38,320
jim has made it perfectly clear to any

549
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:41,360
skeptics who doubt the story that he is

550
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:42,720
completely

551
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:44,880
comfortable with his police notebook

552
00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:47,679
being forensicated so that it can be

553
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:49,360
proven that the

554
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:52,080
paper and specifically the ink on the

555
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,600
paper is is um

556
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,679
contemporary 1980

557
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,440
and this isn't something that was added

558
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:01,600
in later and of course for those of you

559
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,559
who watch tv shows like forensic files

560
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:06,240
you'll know that there are a whole bunch

561
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:06,880
of

562
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:09,760
forensic specialists who who specialize

563
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:12,799
in document analysis so the science is

564
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,600
there this can be done um

565
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:18,159
and jim is quite happy to make this

566
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:19,919
available and indeed i believe that he

567
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:22,480
has already made it available uh i think

568
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:26,799
to history channel who who made a a show

569
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:29,120
about this some years ago so in a sense

570
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,120
the forensication has already been done

571
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:35,120
i don't have to tell you

572
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,400
that that's not a crashed aircraft

573
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:40,480
i don't have to tell you i'm sure that

574
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:43,840
that's not a conventional aircraft

575
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:47,520
or drone of of really any kind and

576
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:50,799
one of the things that jim peniston

577
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:53,840
had in his duties is he was an aircraft

578
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,630
aircraft that the americans

579
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:05,520
themselves had or whether it was

580
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:08,480
something that the soviets or indeed

581
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:12,320
other nations have if it flew

582
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,200
jim peniston knew about it and he really

583
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:17,760
was a deep specialist on this and he

584
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:20,080
said this is like nothing he'd ever seen

585
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:22,480
before in his life now the first thing

586
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,840
that jim did he had a camera with him he

587
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:28,080
shot off a whole roll of film of this

588
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:29,760
thing but

589
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:37,110
after he shot off his film

590
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:38,720
um

591
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:40,880
he because he'd ran out of film he

592
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:43,440
sketched it in his police notebook it's

593
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:45,440
a good job he did

594
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:48,720
because later the base photo processing

595
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:51,520
laboratory told him oh sorry jim your

596
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,600
film didn't come out

597
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:55,200
well

598
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:56,480
there are a whole bunch of people who

599
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:57,919
don't believe that

600
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:00,240
who think that maybe the powers that be

601
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:03,360
spirited away the film but

602
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,960
jim and some of the other people

603
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:06,400
involved say

604
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:07,279
well

605
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:08,640
actually

606
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:11,200
the the light was so bright that maybe

607
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:14,720
that was a true statement from the base

608
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,120
processing lab and the other thing that

609
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:19,760
i'm going to come on to

610
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:20,640
is

611
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:25,200
radiation at the landing site and

612
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,000
it's quite possible that radioactivity

613
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:30,000
was responsible for the fogging of this

614
00:27:34,390 --> 00:27:31,760
film so

615
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:34,400
for people who are saying

616
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:36,000
i don't believe it the government

617
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,080
spirited away the film that's not

618
00:27:43,269 --> 00:27:40,960
necessarily true it might be true but it

619
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:43,279
might be that a combination of the

620
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,880
bright light

621
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:47,120
and the radioactivity

622
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:48,640
genuinely did

623
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:50,640
mean that the film didn't come out in

624
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:54,080
any usable form i don't know the answer

625
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:57,679
to that particular part of it well

626
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,000
jim

627
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:02,159
decided that after he'd shot off his

628
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,440
film and

629
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:05,760
done his sketch he'd better get as close

630
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:08,480
as he could so he went right up to this

631
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,830
and

632
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:13,840
it's kind of interesting if you talk to

633
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,960
jim and john about what happened to them

634
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,320
and if you talk to some of the other

635
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:20,399
witnesses who went out but stayed a

636
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,919
little further back

637
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:23,520
it's kind of like a whole bunch of

638
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:25,520
people went out into the forest that

639
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:28,159
night they all came back with slightly

640
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:29,279
different

641
00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:35,760
of what exactly happened to them

642
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:37,279
john burroughs

643
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:41,600
talks for example about a flash of light

644
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:45,520
and suddenly just not being aware of

645
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:49,120
where he was anymore and you'll hear

646
00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:52,480
sometimes from john the phrase

647
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,360
going into the light

648
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:57,360
well i really don't uh

649
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,240
have the time to go into what i i

650
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,240
suppose might almost become

651
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,120
a more new age presentation but of

652
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,120
course those of you who are interested

653
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:10,399
not just in ufos but in some other

654
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:13,279
paranormal phenomena mysteries into

655
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:15,919
maybe more new age and spiritual things

656
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:18,399
near-death experiences out-of-body

657
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:20,159
experiences

658
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:23,200
the idea of going into the light

659
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:26,399
which is a phrase john barrows has used

660
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,480
maybe has some other

661
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:31,039
connotations which take us away from

662
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:34,559
ufos and into the realm of some other

663
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:37,440
phenomena but for the the time being i'm

664
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:38,480
going to

665
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,960
stick as we've got it and as it's an

666
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,559
important part of the

667
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,720
paper trail of this like i say this

668
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,120
comes from jim peniston's police

669
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,520
notebook um i'm going to stick with jim

670
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,279
peniston's

671
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:53,200
recollection of this

672
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:55,760
he thought that he had better

673
00:30:02,549 --> 00:29:59,520
do his best to document this

674
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:02,559
at one point jim observed a flash of

675
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:05,200
light and he couldn't really see where

676
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,760
john was and he even thought that john

677
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:09,440
might be

678
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,559
down a casualty

679
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:14,399
and that he himself

680
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:16,720
might if this thing whatever it was was

681
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:19,600
hostile he might not come back from this

682
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:26,149
i'll do some sketches

683
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:27,760
he thought if i don't come back from

684
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:28,799
this

685
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:31,039
maybe they'll find the camera he didn't

686
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:32,399
know at the time the thing about the

687
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:33,279
film

688
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:34,799
maybe they'll find my camera maybe

689
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:37,360
they'll find my police notebook

690
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,640
if i don't

691
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:40,640
survive this

692
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,880
which was going through his mind

693
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:45,360
or maybe they'll find the camera in the

694
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:47,840
notebook and maybe people will piece

695
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,640
together what happened to us so he

696
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,480
wanted to kind of document this to the

697
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,480
best of his ability

698
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:56,640
so he sketched

699
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,310
on the side of the craft

700
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:04,559
were strange symbols

701
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,669
that he could only really liken to

702
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:12,000
egyptian hieroglyphs

703
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:15,440
and he sketched these these symbols too

704
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:16,480
and

705
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,750
touched

706
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:38,230
this final symbol there the the big one

707
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:39,919
for those of you who have seen a couple

708
00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:43,440
of the recent recreations of this on tv

709
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:46,640
you'll know that when he touched that

710
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:48,720
final

711
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:51,039
symbol which was larger than the others

712
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,149
and

713
00:32:01,269 --> 00:31:58,080
i'll come on later

714
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:01,279
to what happened to him kind of in in

715
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:02,720
his mind

716
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,120
but for the time being just to keep the

717
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:07,039
story on

718
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,039
the craft

719
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:11,360
i will say that from

720
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:12,720
uh

721
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:14,960
now this thing was about nine feet

722
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,669
along the

723
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:25,750
this was back engineered from roswell by

724
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,789
along

725
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:35,750
the base there

726
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:37,200
near as we can

727
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,559
figure from what jim says

728
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:42,960
the length there is really only about

729
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:44,399
nine feet

730
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:46,799
now this thing is not big um bear in

731
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:49,120
mind again what john said about how this

732
00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:51,519
wasn't even really what he would call a

733
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:54,840
clearing more of a small opening in the

734
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:58,480
trees so that bit was maybe

735
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:00,960
nine feet and measured from the bottom

736
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:05,990
that was maybe about

737
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:08,720
nine feet two well

738
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:09,440
i

739
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,679
they actually

740
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,919
poured plaster of paris

741
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,200
into this

742
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,279
um

743
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:35,919
and to and and so that was part of the

744
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:38,880
investigation to to try to make some

745
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:41,519
calculations about uh

746
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,080
the the shape of this craft and the

747
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:46,399
shape particularly of the part of the

748
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,120
craft that had actually uh been in

749
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,360
contact with the ground and had made

750
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:53,600
these indentations

751
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,029
those plaster casts

752
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:01,600
at least one of them still exists

753
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,799
and again have been

754
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:07,440
brought out for a couple of the tv shows

755
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:08,960
on this

756
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,950
the other thing

757
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:15,040
that they saw at the landing site while

758
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:16,399
they were waiting for the lighthouse to

759
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,280
come out was that um

760
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:22,800
the sides of the trees

761
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,280
facing the clearing

762
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:27,919
seemed to be damaged

763
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:30,480
branches had been smashed off and just

764
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:31,760
exactly

765
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:34,480
uh in a way that would be consistent

766
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,399
with what jim said about this this craft

767
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:40,480
uh

768
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:43,280
jim said that really the hole in the

769
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,960
canopy was really only inches bigger

770
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:49,280
than this craft itself

771
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:50,000
so

772
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:52,720
it it really did have to maneuver as it

773
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,040
moved up he didn't see it of course

774
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,040
maneuver come in in the first place it

775
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,040
was already on the ground by the time he

776
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:01,440
got to the clearing but um

777
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:04,880
it was pretty obvious to him that

778
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:07,280
the branches that had been smashed off

779
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:10,320
the trees had been knocked off

780
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:13,440
by this craft as it had come down and as

781
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:15,920
it took off again afterwards and again

782
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,160
that was one thing that colonel holt and

783
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,640
his team were able to document when they

784
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:22,640
went out there

785
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,680
was that this this tree damage had

786
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,280
occurred

787
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,359
so we had the indentations

788
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:31,280
on the ground we had the branches

789
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:33,520
smashed off

790
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,320
really disconcertingly the sides of the

791
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:38,960
trees facing inwards

792
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:41,760
so so the the inward

793
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:44,400
sides of the trees that had been

794
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:45,280
really

795
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:48,400
adjacent to this craft were kind of

796
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:55,030
as if a high heat source had been there

797
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:57,040
and perhaps it was only the fact that it

798
00:36:02,310 --> 00:35:58,720
was pretty cold and

799
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:02,320
wet had actually prevented a fire

800
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:05,200
but again the scorch marks

801
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:08,480
were obvious to the the naked eye to the

802
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,839
people um examining this this landing

803
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:12,720
site

804
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:19,589
one of the people out there in colonel

805
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:23,040
holt's team was

806
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:26,400
the disaster preparedness officer now

807
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,720
he's not done too many interviews but he

808
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:30,480
has recently

809
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:33,440
begun to to do a couple on on this and

810
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:37,040
his name is monroe neville's

811
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,119
and he's a very important part of this

812
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:41,119
story because as the disaster

813
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:43,280
preparedness officer

814
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:46,720
one of the things that he brought out

815
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:49,839
was a geiger counter

816
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:50,720
and

817
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:53,440
colonel hall basically told monroe

818
00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:55,760
neville's i want you to

819
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:58,160
run the geiger counter around the

820
00:37:01,510 --> 00:37:00,000
landing site and see if you pick

821
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,520
anything up

822
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:04,160
well he got some moderate readings from

823
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,880
the clearing but when he

824
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:08,560
zoomed in

825
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:09,359
on

826
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,440
in the ground

827
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:15,599
and by the way i forgot to mention my

828
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:18,480
apologies a central

829
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,359
but slightly less profound depression in

830
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,520
the middle of those three

831
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:24,640
marks

832
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:27,040
he found that he got spikes of

833
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:29,920
radioactivity

834
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:31,040
and

835
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:33,920
when he ran the geya counter along the

836
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:36,400
trees that were facing inwards that had

837
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:39,440
the scorch marks on again

838
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:49,349
at that point and i'll come back to the

839
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:50,960
the radioactivity because this is

840
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,079
important

841
00:37:56,950 --> 00:37:53,920
but at that point as they were

842
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:56,960
documenting all of this the tree damage

843
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,240
the indentations the radioactivity

844
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:02,400
one of them shouted out hey look over

845
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:04,960
there through the trees and before they

846
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:07,040
got the chance to light everything up

847
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:09,920
with the light holes

848
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:12,560
they actually saw through the

849
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:16,640
through the forest a bright light

850
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:20,800
and it was moving erratically and

851
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:23,359
my apologies i don't have this set up

852
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:24,480
but

853
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:25,920
some of you may be familiar with the

854
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:27,839
fact that colonel hall one of the things

855
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:30,240
that colonel holt

856
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:33,280
often did was that he took with him a

857
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,320
handheld cassette recorder a bit like i

858
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,400
don't know those of you who remember the

859
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,640
tv series twin peaks

860
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:42,800
uh well the

861
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,160
lead

862
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:46,320
character there special agent dale

863
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:49,920
cooper often carried with him a handheld

864
00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:51,920
cassette recorder and colonel halt did

865
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,480
the same thing and basically what he

866
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:56,880
used to do is in his duties he used to

867
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,079
go around and uh if something happened

868
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:01,920
he would document it

869
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:03,760
and if he had

870
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,000
observations or thoughts he would he

871
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,560
would speak into his his handheld

872
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,720
cassette recorder and

873
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:12,800
this is all

874
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:15,520
captured on tape and if you go on to

875
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:17,119
youtube

876
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,000
and you put in the phrase halt tape and

877
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:22,320
it's h-a-l-t

878
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:27,200
you'll you can find a 17-minute

879
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:29,520
he was out there for hours but um

880
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:31,119
obviously he wasn't

881
00:39:33,710 --> 00:39:33,040
recording all the time but you can find

882
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:33,720
a

883
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,240
getting

884
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,960
some some levels off this

885
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:57,200
and then you'll hear them say look over

886
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:01,910
and you can hear

887
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:04,160
the fear and tension in their voice as

888
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,560
this ufo gets closer and closer to them

889
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:08,960
and at one point in the tape

890
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:11,040
you can hear them say it's coming this

891
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:14,880
way it's definitely coming this way

892
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:19,200
now they didn't see it quite as close as

893
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:22,160
jim peniston got on the first night

894
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:25,520
but at one point

895
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:27,040
the ufo was

896
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:29,440
high up in the sky

897
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:32,960
performing erratic maneuvers

898
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,200
um

899
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,920
firing beams of light down at the ground

900
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:39,680
colonel holt said it was almost like it

901
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:41,839
was looking for something it was almost

902
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:44,880
as if this thing was conducting a grid

903
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,480
search of some point of some kind and

904
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:50,800
then

905
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:52,240
just when they thought it couldn't get

906
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:53,839
more strange

907
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:57,040
a pencil thin beam of light like a laser

908
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:58,160
beam

909
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:00,560
shone down from the ufo

910
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:02,800
and struck the ground

911
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,800
just yards in front of them

912
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:08,720
and looking back

913
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:11,440
in later years on this

914
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:15,520
colonel holt has has asked the question

915
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:19,359
and he speculated was this a weapon

916
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:21,920
was this communication

917
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,480
was this a warning

918
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:26,160
what was this

919
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,720
and he doesn't know

920
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:30,400
but

921
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,880
what colonel holt and remember he went

922
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:34,640
out there as the skeptic to try and

923
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,440
debunk what he called this ufo nonsense

924
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,200
and he finds himself right in the middle

925
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,560
of it and he finds himself arguably to

926
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:44,640
this date

927
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:47,520
possibly the most senior ranking

928
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:51,040
military officer ever to see and report

929
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:57,750
colonel holt has said you know i don't

930
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,040
know what this thing is

931
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:03,359
but whatever it is i can tell you one

932
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:04,960
thing

933
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:08,720
it was under intelligent control

934
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:10,880
and it was performing speeds and

935
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:14,960
maneuvers that even now in 2014 with all

936
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:18,160
the spy planes and the drones that you

937
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:21,040
you see and read about even now he said

938
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:22,000
i

939
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,640
not have that technology

940
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:30,240
i don't know where it comes from i don't

941
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,599
know what it is

942
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,040
but

943
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,880
kind of

944
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:36,880
doesn't seem to be us

945
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:38,480
so if not us

946
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:40,960
who else

947
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:43,440
halt and his team were out there in the

948
00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:46,720
forest for about three or four hours

949
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:49,599
firstly documenting the landing site

950
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:50,880
secondly

951
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:53,599
themselves having their own encounter

952
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:56,160
and and i'm yeah they saw a whole bunch

953
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:59,680
of other ufo activity in the sky i i'm

954
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:02,319
just editing this down to try and get

955
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:05,280
everything into a a reasonably concise

956
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:06,880
presentation

957
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:10,240
they went way beyond the forest out into

958
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,280
a farmer's field beyond the forest

959
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:15,680
the very last thing they saw at about

960
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:17,839
four in the morning

961
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:20,720
as they turned round and looked back to

962
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:23,200
the base

963
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:26,880
was the ufo directly over woodbridge

964
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,359
firing light beams down at a

965
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,079
particularly sensitive part

966
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,480
of the military establishment

967
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:36,160
and

968
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:38,960
a number of other ufo researchers have

969
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,440
actually tracked down some of the people

970
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,480
who were involved in this and i i'm

971
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,400
still in touch

972
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,880
with colonel halt in fact i had an email

973
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:50,720
from him just yesterday about some of

974
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:51,440
this

975
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,800
the names of the personnel who witnessed

976
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:56,800
all this and known to him

977
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,359
there were witnesses back in the control

978
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:02,160
tower watching this and there were some

979
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:03,839
people in

980
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:05,839
this particularly sensitive part of the

981
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,200
base who saw light beams uh strike

982
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,680
a particular part of the military

983
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,200
establishment and by the way if you

984
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:17,119
think i'm being a little bit circumspect

985
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:20,000
here it's because

986
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,520
although i

987
00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:24,640
left the ministry of defense in 2006

988
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,319
and although the british government is

989
00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:28,400
in the process of declassifying and

990
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:31,200
releasing its entire archive of ufo

991
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:33,760
files there are i'm still bound by my

992
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:35,680
secrecy oath and there are one or two

993
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:38,000
things that the british government and

994
00:44:43,030 --> 00:44:39,760
indeed i think the american government

995
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,040
have not yet uh made public or admitted

996
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:45,119
so uh there are plenty of things that

997
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,800
some of the witnesses will talk about

998
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:48,880
and that's their decision but there are

999
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,200
one or two things which with apologies

1000
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:53,839
i'm not going to be able to uh comment

1001
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:56,079
on in huge detail but i'm sure you can

1002
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,000
kind of guess where i'm going with this

1003
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:01,200
when i talk about sensitive parts of the

1004
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:04,000
the base and maybe maybe someone will

1005
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,160
will ask it in question time i'm i'm

1006
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:08,319
sure they will

1007
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:11,280
suffice to say that for anyone that

1008
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:13,839
thinks that whatever ufos might be that

1009
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:16,319
this isn't a security uh

1010
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:18,319
issue and that this isn't of extreme

1011
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:20,640
concern to the authorities believe me

1012
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,680
when i tell you it is and uh by the way

1013
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:26,000
there's one extremely interesting part

1014
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:28,319
of the whole rendelsham forest story

1015
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:32,240
that kind of often gets overlooked

1016
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:33,599
and

1017
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:37,760
it's this it's a no it's an observation

1018
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:40,160
but here you have i don't think any of

1019
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,880
us would now dispute that this is a ufo

1020
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:44,160
incident

1021
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:46,640
and here you have

1022
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,150
in the united states air force

1023
00:45:59,829 --> 00:45:56,160
not only witnessing

1024
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,839
a ufo but documenting all of this

1025
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:01,760
investigating all of this of course

1026
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:03,040
checking hey

1027
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:05,440
did anyone track this on radar yes they

1028
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:07,520
did it turns out

1029
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:08,640
shortly

1030
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:10,720
before the ufo

1031
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,119
was seen on the first night

1032
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:15,440
it transpired that the british

1033
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:17,839
authorities tracked what the radar

1034
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:20,880
people call an uncorrelated target or

1035
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:23,440
what i think the the u s air force would

1036
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:26,079
call a bogey

1037
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,400
on the radar screens very briefly and

1038
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:31,440
then it disappeared from the screens

1039
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:34,720
guess where right over the bases

1040
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,319
um

1041
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,119
so at the time all this was going on you

1042
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:41,520
know the interesting point about this is

1043
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:43,119
that you have all these american

1044
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:44,960
military witnesses

1045
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:46,800
seeing a ufo

1046
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,119
running an investigation of military

1047
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:50,880
people including the deputy base

1048
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:54,000
commander out there investigating these

1049
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:57,520
ufos there is perhaps

1050
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:59,839
a slight disconnect there

1051
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,400
remember the radioactivity i mentioned i

1052
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:04,960
i i said that monroe neville's um

1053
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:07,280
colonel hall ordered ordered him to run

1054
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:10,880
the geiger counter over the uh trees

1055
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,359
over the indentations

1056
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:15,359
and he said um

1057
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:17,680
you know do that and they documented it

1058
00:47:22,550 --> 00:47:20,160
and they sent the documents to the

1059
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:22,560
ministry of defense bear in mind this is

1060
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:26,640
american bases but on british soil

1061
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:30,079
when the ministry of defense got colonel

1062
00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:33,920
holt's report which included

1063
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:36,720
that the radioactivity readings that

1064
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,319
monroe neville's had taken with the

1065
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,000
geiger counter

1066
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:42,319
the defense intelligence staff did an

1067
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:44,640
assessment of that and

1068
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:46,640
again the document has now been

1069
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:49,040
declassified and released

1070
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,000
it's out there on the british government

1071
00:47:56,430 --> 00:47:54,640
website national archives and it

1072
00:47:59,390 --> 00:47:56,440
basically says that the levels of

1073
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,400
radioactivity recorded seem

1074
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:02,000
significantly higher than the average

1075
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:03,520
background

1076
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:05,680
and that's a direct quote

1077
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:08,880
from the mods defense intelligence staff

1078
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:10,640
the scientific and technical

1079
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:13,520
intelligence specialists at the ministry

1080
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:15,520
of defense

1081
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:17,920
uh one of the other documents in the

1082
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:20,480
ministry of defenses file on this

1083
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:22,000
says

1084
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:24,960
oh shortly after the incident

1085
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,440
general gabrielle

1086
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:29,359
flew to the bases

1087
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:32,400
was briefed on this and took items

1088
00:48:37,030 --> 00:48:34,480
relating to the investigation back to

1089
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:37,040
his headquarters

1090
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:40,000
who was general gabrielle

1091
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:41,680
general gabrielle

1092
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,480
was cnc usafe

1093
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:46,880
commander in chief united states air

1094
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:50,240
force in europe he was the

1095
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:51,440
senior

1096
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:54,480
united states air force officer anywhere

1097
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:56,319
in europe

1098
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,280
and shortly after this incident

1099
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:02,000
he flew specially to the base was

1100
00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:03,599
briefed on this

1101
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:04,480
and

1102
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:09,680
ufos are no longer of any interest to

1103
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:12,319
the u s government and if the phenomenon

1104
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:14,720
has not been investigated why is the

1105
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:18,000
senior ranking u.s air force officer in

1106
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:19,280
europe

1107
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:22,240
taking a personal interest in a ufo

1108
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:23,359
sighting

1109
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:25,599
we don't know suffice to say some ufo

1110
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,440
researchers have gone after the paper

1111
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:29,520
trail there are certainly documents in

1112
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:32,240
the mod file confirming that general

1113
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:35,599
gabrielle visited and was briefed but so

1114
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:38,880
far no one has managed to find any

1115
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,640
u.s air force documents or dod documents

1116
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:45,119
that show what happened next what

1117
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:46,800
happened when the general got back to

1118
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:50,800
his headquarters at ramstein in germany

1119
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,040
what happened what briefings were

1120
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:54,720
demanded by

1121
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,599
washington for example that

1122
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:59,760
we don't know

1123
00:50:05,150 --> 00:50:02,240
but there is a a paper trail

1124
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:05,160
as i say that uh certainly confirms the

1125
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:07,520
radioactivity levels and certainly

1126
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,160
confirms that commander in chief united

1127
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:12,240
states air force in europe took a close

1128
00:50:16,549 --> 00:50:14,160
personal interest

1129
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:16,559
i'm coming up to 15 minutes now so i'm

1130
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:17,760
just going to make a couple of

1131
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:20,640
concluding remarks before i hand it over

1132
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:23,440
to you for comments and questions and

1133
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,470
i don't know who the

1134
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,559
person on the left is obviously someone

1135
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:33,920
who snuck into the picture and

1136
00:50:38,150 --> 00:50:36,559
photobombed it but you will uh

1137
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:38,160
see there

1138
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,119
this is jim peniston and this is john

1139
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:42,880
burroughs

1140
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,160
that there we are and

1141
00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:48,559
this is a guy here

1142
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:51,440
he's an attorney called pat frass cogner

1143
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:54,079
who has done a lot of pro bono work on

1144
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,319
this for john and jim

1145
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:58,400
i don't have time to go into many of the

1146
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:00,880
details on this and some of course are

1147
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:03,920
personally confidential but both john

1148
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:06,640
and jim who remember were the people who

1149
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:09,760
got closest to the ufo

1150
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:11,599
jim touched the side of it maybe not a

1151
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:14,160
good idea

1152
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:16,240
with hindsight

1153
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:18,480
but both john and jim have had some

1154
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:21,520
health issues which they attribute

1155
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:24,800
to their close proximity to the ufo and

1156
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:26,559
pat

1157
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,079
fres cogner is a crusading attorney

1158
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:33,440
who usually goes after corporations who

1159
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:35,280
environmentally pollute that sort of

1160
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:36,559
thing but

1161
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:38,559
he's done a lot of pro bono work with

1162
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:41,119
john and jim to try to get their

1163
00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:44,240
military medical records

1164
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,200
why

1165
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:47,920
because it turns out that

1166
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:50,319
like i say jim and john think that some

1167
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,880
of their health issues are attributable

1168
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:54,240
to

1169
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,200
turns out their middle their military

1170
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,200
medical records

1171
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:03,359
are lodged in a

1172
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:04,960
a little known

1173
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,200
classified record section of the

1174
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:09,200
veterans administration

1175
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,880
and

1176
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:12,559
so far

1177
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:15,440
they have not been able to get

1178
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,640
get these out now this photo was taken

1179
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,880
an event called the citizens hearing for

1180
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:22,720
disclosure

1181
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:28,790
hearings

1182
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:32,720
organized privately by steve bassett but

1183
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:34,720
modeled on the sort of congressional

1184
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,880
hearings that people would like to see

1185
00:52:40,109 --> 00:52:38,319
on ufos

1186
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:40,119
and the

1187
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:44,319
multi-party panel who interrogated

1188
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:46,960
the the witnesses here um

1189
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:49,760
some republicans some democrats some

1190
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:52,559
libertarians all former congressional

1191
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:56,240
representatives they were so outraged

1192
00:52:59,030 --> 00:52:57,599
by the

1193
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,040
lack

1194
00:53:03,910 --> 00:53:01,359
the inability of john and jim to get

1195
00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:03,920
their military medical records that they

1196
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:07,839
wrote a letter both to the uh secretary

1197
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:10,559
of the veterans administration and to

1198
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:12,800
the president of the united states

1199
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:15,920
this is an ongoing story

1200
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:18,880
there may yet be a federal lawsuit

1201
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:21,119
which involves john and jim and maybe

1202
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,640
some of the other witnesses maybe

1203
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:24,880
they'll come in with a class action i

1204
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:26,960
don't know this is a like i say it's a

1205
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:29,599
story which continues to this day

1206
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,559
uh

1207
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:32,480
shameless plug

1208
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:34,880
i teamed up with john burroughs and jim

1209
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:37,359
peniston and we wrote this book

1210
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,240
uh i'm afraid that i've sold out of

1211
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:42,960
copies and i i wasn't able to bring any

1212
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:44,800
but you can probably it's been out for a

1213
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,440
few months you can get a a few you get

1214
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:49,839
copies quite cheaply i think on on

1215
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:53,119
amazon so that's our our book on the

1216
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:56,400
subject and that in a nutshell

1217
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:57,280
is

1218
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:59,200
the story of the rendelsham forest

1219
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,000
incident and i would now like to thank

1220
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:04,160
you very much for listening and i will

1221
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:06,559
turn it over to you for any comments and

1222
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:08,720
questions in the last 10 minutes or so

1223
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:10,160
so thank you very much indeed for

1224
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:17,349
uh

1225
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:24,150
oh good is there a roving microphone

1226
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:25,440
that uh

1227
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:28,079
that questioners can use or

1228
00:54:34,470 --> 00:54:32,240
or can you just shout out loud then

1229
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:34,480
okay if you can shout out fairly loud so

1230
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:46,950
yes

1231
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:49,670
not many of the witnesses who were

1232
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:53,119
directly involved in this recount seeing

1233
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:56,240
entities but one of the people involved

1234
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:57,680
larry warren

1235
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:59,280
who was certainly the first

1236
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,920
whistleblower of this case

1237
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:03,599
has reported

1238
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:05,920
that he saw what he believes to be

1239
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:09,520
entities of of some sort and he tells a

1240
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:13,359
story of how on one night he believes he

1241
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:15,760
saw what he could only perhaps describe

1242
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:19,359
as a maybe a planned rendezvous

1243
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:25,349
this ufo whatever it was and some of the

1244
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:28,720
senior officers now other military

1245
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:30,079
witnesses

1246
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:32,960
dispute larry warren's story

1247
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:35,599
um but

1248
00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:38,559
larry warren has his supporters too

1249
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,319
and um

1250
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:42,720
it's an interesting part of this

1251
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:44,720
john and jim don't recall seeing

1252
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:46,640
entities but

1253
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:49,440
as i say larry does so who knows and i

1254
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:51,119
think one of the interesting things

1255
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:53,359
about all of this and one of the reasons

1256
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:56,079
why we wrote this book was we know full

1257
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:57,040
well

1258
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:58,720
there are still

1259
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,280
dozens of people who were directly

1260
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:03,839
involved in this in some capacity

1261
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:06,640
either as witnesses or as people who are

1262
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:09,200
involved afterwards maybe as part of the

1263
00:56:15,910 --> 00:56:13,599
investigation maybe as part of the

1264
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:15,920
lockdown of this story the containment

1265
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:17,920
of this story well we want their stories

1266
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:19,599
too so

1267
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:34,710
there yes

1268
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:35,750
um

1269
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,799
there has been some limited correlation

1270
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:41,040
of the radar data with the visual

1271
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:42,319
sightings

1272
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:44,480
um

1273
00:56:48,309 --> 00:56:46,799
there are the the situation is

1274
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,319
complicated

1275
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:50,640
by the fact that in the ministry of

1276
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:53,200
defense file for this

1277
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:55,599
there is reference to some of the

1278
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:58,319
uh firstly the wrong dates being given

1279
00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:00,720
and therefore the incorrect dates been

1280
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:04,240
checked and the other problem was that

1281
00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:06,720
the way that the british radar systems

1282
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:10,319
were set up they had twin screens

1283
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:12,240
they had a

1284
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:13,680
a person

1285
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:16,559
physically watching the first screen

1286
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,720
and there was a second screen next to it

1287
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,960
with exactly the same data being

1288
00:57:24,950 --> 00:57:22,319
displayed

1289
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:24,960
and that was being filmed by a static

1290
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:28,880
camera directly above it so there was a

1291
00:57:34,030 --> 00:57:33,200
kind of film record of the radar tape

1292
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,040
now

1293
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,760
unfortunately

1294
00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:37,760
and i know a lot of conspiracy theorists

1295
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:40,240
don't believe this but unfortunately the

1296
00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:44,000
answer came back that the film

1297
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:45,040
of

1298
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:47,920
the radar tapes was faulty

1299
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:50,640
unfortunately this whole story is a

1300
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:55,680
a a list of faulty tapes and wrong dates

1301
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:58,319
being checked and and

1302
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:00,880
films not coming out and

1303
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:03,200
documents going missing

1304
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:05,520
there is a fine line i think with a lot

1305
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:06,480
of this

1306
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:09,920
between you know where does conspiracy

1307
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:13,040
and bureaucracy where's the dividing

1308
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,710
i don't know so the answer to your

1309
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,720
question is there's been some limited

1310
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:22,480
attempt to correlate

1311
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,200
in the radar data

1312
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:27,599
but the original tapes

1313
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,000
and films don't survive

1314
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:32,720
in terms of witnesses who talk about it

1315
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:35,200
uh there's a ufo researcher i think

1316
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:37,599
called robert hastings

1317
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:40,240
who i believe has published two people

1318
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:41,520
who were in

1319
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:46,400
this so i believe the names are out

1320
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:47,280
there

1321
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:48,640
um

1322
00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:50,960
i'm afraid they slip my memory

1323
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:54,559
i think one might be ike turner i i

1324
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:56,640
apologize i forget one name and i might

1325
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,280
be mangling the other um so the answer

1326
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:01,440
to your question is there is some

1327
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:03,359
correlation out there but not as much as

1328
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:09,670
one

1329
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:19,349
when you were working

1330
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:22,400
with the british minister of defense

1331
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:24,559
of the london landing

1332
00:59:29,270 --> 00:59:25,440
of

1333
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:29,280
the london landing that was supposed to

1334
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:34,630
no there was nothing in the ministry of

1335
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:37,359
defense files about any

1336
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:40,559
landing or any other event

1337
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:44,720
associated with this i i'll qualify that

1338
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:48,559
slightly about a month earlier

1339
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:52,160
there was a sighting over

1340
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:53,760
south london

1341
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:56,880
of a kind of tetrahedral shaped

1342
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:58,160
ufo

1343
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,040
and by a bizarre coincidence one of the

1344
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:03,200
witnesses was a fairly well-known

1345
01:00:06,789 --> 01:00:05,920
researcher ufo researcher called timothy

1346
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:06,799
good

1347
01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:08,000
um

1348
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:10,640
but that was that was about a month

1349
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:12,880
before the rainbow sham forest incident

1350
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:14,880
and it certainly didn't involve a

1351
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,920
landing it was um something fairly high

1352
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:19,440
in the sky

1353
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,680
there was another

1354
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,000
radar sighting involving a radar

1355
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:26,640
operative called malcolm scara but again

1356
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:28,880
that was at the end of november

1357
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:31,599
i think tim good sighting

1358
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:33,520
was i believe about somewhere between

1359
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:36,400
the 5th and 10th of december so there

1360
01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:39,119
was absolutely nothing in any ministry

1361
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:41,920
of defense file about a landing in

1362
01:00:47,520 --> 01:01:02,069
i'm afraid so yes indeed extreme caution

1363
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:03,349
uh

1364
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,680
larry warren who i mentioned earlier

1365
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,160
co-wrote with a ufo researcher called

1366
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,640
peter robbins a

1367
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:12,880
book on this case called left at

1368
01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:16,000
eastgate that was published i believe in

1369
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:18,400
1997.

1370
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:19,680
our book

1371
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:22,319
uh encounter in rendelsham forest

1372
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:26,240
was published in march of this year

1373
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:28,480
so that's the time difference and by the

1374
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:30,319
way we will have a

1375
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:34,400
paperback coming out in uh next march i

1376
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:35,440
believe

1377
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:38,720
there's another book on this case

1378
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:41,920
called you can't tell the people

1379
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:44,640
written by a friend of mine who's now

1380
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:47,839
deceased called georgina bruni

1381
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:50,880
so as with roswell there are a number of

1382
01:01:55,030 --> 01:01:53,359
books that have been written on this

1383
01:01:57,030 --> 01:01:55,040
case but

1384
01:01:59,349 --> 01:01:57,040
obviously in terms of

1385
01:02:01,990 --> 01:01:59,359
the books that have been written our one

1386
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,000
is the the latest and it's it's one

1387
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:04,799
written through the eyes of of john

1388
01:02:10,950 --> 01:02:07,680
burroughs and jim peniston who who got

1389
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:10,960
closest in this the next piece of news

1390
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:13,359
on this is that i occasionally hear

1391
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:15,440
hints that colonel hall might finally

1392
01:02:19,829 --> 01:02:17,520
decide you know maybe i should write

1393
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:19,839
something and have my say so if colonel

1394
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:22,880
hulk decides to write

1395
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:26,880
a book that will be another interesting

1396
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:30,400
part of this story i did not have time

1397
01:02:33,910 --> 01:02:31,920
to get into

1398
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:33,920
and dennis just showed me the five

1399
01:02:37,030 --> 01:02:34,799
minute

1400
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:37,040
uh sign but i'm just going to maybe

1401
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:40,000
mention this incredibly briefly because

1402
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,920
otherwise you'll be one wondering for

1403
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,680
those that know the story why i didn't

1404
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:45,920
mention it

1405
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,880
jim peniston when he touched the side of

1406
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:51,119
the ufo

1407
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:53,760
for years and years and years

1408
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:55,680
mainly because he was afraid he would be

1409
01:03:01,109 --> 01:02:58,240
drummed out of the military as some sort

1410
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:01,119
of psychological case something strange

1411
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:05,119
happened to him that he kept to himself

1412
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:07,920
when he touched that final symbol

1413
01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:10,880
not only did there was a bright flash of

1414
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,599
light and the ufo slowly

1415
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:15,599
rose up above the ground

1416
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:17,520
but he said that as he touched that

1417
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,839
symbol through his head

1418
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:21,359
flashed

1419
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:23,520
what he could really only describe as a

1420
01:03:29,670 --> 01:03:27,440
telepathic download of ones and zeroes

1421
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,680
the so-called binary message the

1422
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:31,520
rendelstrom code whatever you want to

1423
01:03:35,430 --> 01:03:33,440
see it it's been covered briefly in a

1424
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:35,440
couple of the most recent

1425
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,880
ufo

1426
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:38,960
documentaries on this case i don't have

1427
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:41,520
to tell you how hugely controversial it

1428
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:45,760
is a computer programming expert

1429
01:03:51,670 --> 01:03:47,760
called nick sisk

1430
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:51,680
was hired by history channel to to do a

1431
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:54,319
kind of decode on what it might mean for

1432
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:56,720
one of the previous

1433
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:00,480
tv shows he came up with a decoding of

1434
01:04:05,789 --> 01:04:04,559
the 16 pages of of ones and zeros which

1435
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:05,799
read

1436
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:09,520
exploration of humanity

1437
01:04:17,029 --> 01:04:13,839
continuous for planetary advance

1438
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:17,039
eyes of our eyes

1439
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:20,799
origin year 8100

1440
01:04:23,910 --> 01:04:22,720
which many people of course have taken

1441
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:23,920
to mean

1442
01:04:28,109 --> 01:04:26,880
origin year 8100 maybe we're talking

1443
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:28,119
about not

1444
01:04:33,630 --> 01:04:30,559
extraterrestrials but time travelers

1445
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:33,640
otherwise why would it say origin year

1446
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:36,079
8100 um

1447
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:38,160
unless that's an alien calendar i don't

1448
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:38,960
know

1449
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:42,720
and then following this message

1450
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:44,640
was a series of what looked like

1451
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:48,000
geographical coordinates

1452
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:51,119
the nazca lines in peru

1453
01:04:56,870 --> 01:04:54,400
the temple of apollo in greece the great

1454
01:04:58,390 --> 01:04:56,880
pyramid at giza which dennis spoke about

1455
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:58,400
earlier

1456
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:00,720
the mythical lost

1457
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:03,440
continent of high brazil

1458
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:06,880
sometimes dubbed the celtic atlantis

1459
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:10,160
again this is hugely controversial some

1460
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:13,280
ufo researchers take great exception to

1461
01:05:16,870 --> 01:05:15,680
this they think it's far too kind of new

1462
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,880
age

1463
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:18,559
for what they believe is a nuts and

1464
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:20,559
bolts phenomenon

1465
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:22,400
work

1466
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,000
to try and get to the bottom of this

1467
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:26,880
so-called binary

1468
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:28,079
code

1469
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:32,160
you call it work is ongoing there are a

1470
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:34,799
couple of websites devoted to this just

1471
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:37,440
just google phrases like the rendlesham

1472
01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:40,720
binary code and you'll find them

1473
01:05:44,390 --> 01:05:43,039
it's a fascinating part of of what is

1474
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,400
still

1475
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:46,000
i think uh

1476
01:05:49,750 --> 01:05:48,799
an ongoing story a story that we haven't

1477
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:49,760
yet

1478
01:05:53,750 --> 01:05:51,839
heard the last of

1479
01:05:56,710 --> 01:05:53,760
with that i'm afraid i think i'm going

1480
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:56,720
to have to wrap up because um

1481
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:59,280
dennis gave me the five minute

1482
01:06:02,870 --> 01:06:01,280
warning and i've i've probably gone on

1483
01:06:04,710 --> 01:06:02,880
but i'm going to be around

1484
01:06:08,470 --> 01:06:04,720
for a while i'm going to the dude of the

1485
01:06:11,349 --> 01:06:08,480
dead music festival of course to uh have

1486
01:06:13,829 --> 01:06:11,359
some have some south west cuisine some

1487
01:06:17,109 --> 01:06:13,839
mexican food maybe uh have a couple of

1488
01:06:19,589 --> 01:06:17,119
cold ones if there's a beer tent and so

1489
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:19,599
with that in mind i i'm going to be

1490
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:21,119
around for those of you that didn't get

1491
01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:23,920
to ask a a comment or a question so

1492
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:25,920
thank you so much for listening and i

1493
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:28,880
hope that you found the uh account of

1494
01:06:34,549 --> 01:06:32,319
the rendelsham forest incident to be as

1495
01:06:37,670 --> 01:06:34,559
fascinating as i found trying to get to

1496
01:06:40,309 --> 01:06:37,680
the bottom of what i still think is a

1497
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:40,319
case which in years to come will be as

1498
01:06:47,349 --> 01:06:44,160
well known as and perhaps one day sorry

1499
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,359
maybe even better known than roswell so

1500
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:49,039
thank you very much for listening thank